It’s my story and I’m sticking to it

Q&A with Carrie Mah, Senior Product Designer

Carrie Mah codes her own vision

Carrie Mah is a charismatic and inspiring figure in the tech industry. The curious, driven and passionate product designer is all about improving lives. From her work with everyone from IBM to financial companies, including major banks, to her role as a senior product designer at a small B-Corp focused on sustainability reporting for businesses, Carrie’s career is focused on envisioning designs and ideas to address human needs

“I love to understand the ‘why’ in everything so I can craft usable, delightful and memorable experiences,” says Mah, who has a BSc in Computer Science. She adds that she is also dedicated to advocating for technical literacy, as well as building inclusive spaces and diversity in tech initiatives.

During her university days, Mah started working with more women involved in tech initiatives and clubs enabling women to feel like they could pursue STEM careers. Mentoring with Chic Geek allows for her to use her lived experience and personal successes as a guiding force for her career pathers (mentees).

We caught up with Mah to chat about life in tech and with her newest adventure moving back to Calgary after getting a glimpse of the tech scene in Montreal.

Q: Tell us about your current career, as well as about your involvement with Chic Geek. 

A: During the pandemic, I moved from Calgary to Montreal with IBM iX as a consultant. I originally left YYC to experience working as a senior product designer at Metrio, a sustainability reporting software based in Montreal. As I reflected on my career, I decided to move back to be with family to find a role where I can thrive as a generalist transforming customer experiences for purpose-driven companies. At Chic Geek, I’ve held the roles of a content contributor, designer and project lead.

Q: Why should women be involved in tech?

A: Because it’s new, it’s growing and all of us are users of technology so we should have women who are strong users becoming makers, and influencing the trajectory of industry and humanity! When we’re building solutions, diverse voices and perspectives need to be included so that systems are built for everyone, not just for a single majority group, ie cis white men. 

Women in technology is good for business, not just for women in business. I strongly believe that women and marginalized groups provide a different perspective and that we are just as qualified as anyone else to build these solutions.

Q: How did you become involved with Chic Geek?

A: When Chic Geek first started, they partnered with Ladies Learning Code, and then reached out to the Computer Science Undergraduate Society, where I volunteered. I wanted to give back to the community so I became part of the Career Pathing program and now I mentor others. Chic Geek has always helped me, so I wanted to make sure they were in a good position where I could also help others.

Q: Could you tell us about your favourite memory working with Chic Geek?

A: There are so many, but a highlight was at Chic Geek’s Geeky Summit, which was the second time held at the Telus Spark. I loved it because after attending so many tech conferences around the United States and Eastern Canada; having such a solid conference out of the West and Calgary was great! It wasn’t just quality talks or connecting with talented people, it was also the community and the volunteer team. We rallied together and working alongside them felt really energizing and fun. Lots of good memories there.

Q: How has finding a community helped you while working in tech?

A: Having a strong community is probably the number one reason why women might choose to stay in tech. Retention is a huge issue, and when you start out in tech, you have no idea what’s out there. It’s always helpful to reach out to people with lived experiences who can give you some advice. 

When you’re a few years into your career, that’s about the time impostor syndrome sets in more strongly, in addition to self-doubt about career trajectory. Reaching out to your community is imperative, but if there’s no community to go to then where can diverse women go? Especially in technology, because there is so much space. It’s not just having technical skills, it’s all these other things that are built into working in the field; such as leadership and client management, learning from others, feeling supported and connecting with the community. 

Q: What were some challenges you faced during your transition into the technology sector?

A: I was fortunate to have access to Computer Science classes, and went through a more traditional route with post-secondary schooling where I studied Computer Science. After getting exposed to Human-Computer Interactions research at a Grade 9 STEM event, I knew I wanted to get into tech. I knew I needed some sort of experience, so I was trying to diversify and get exposure by working at my school’s research lab and helping non-profits build websites. That experience got me into coding at a startup and agency. After wondering if the designs I was handed addressed people’s problems, I realized I could explore this in the field of UX Design. 

As a UX Designer, your portfolio is key, but when I graduated, the industry still saw me as this technologist instead of a designer. 

ATB took a chance on me and it was a great learning experience. The difficulties before securing that position were in trying to convey my worth to people and companies where I learned to master my own story and truth. Not only trying to prove myself, but also trying to find a company that aligned with my goals. When I asked for support, a lot of people suggested front end development jobs, which are great, but I knew if I went down that path, I would continue to be perceived as a developer and not a designer. I reinforced my story: I’m a multidisciplinary designer who can understand how to speak with developers and craft feasible, usable designs that extend beyond just a pretty design. 

Q: What is one of your greatest success stories as a woman working in tech so far?

A: I think general success is being true to who I am, and being focused on how I want to make an impact on the world as that is what ignites my passion. I try to dive into different streams, including development at an agency, design consulting with large corporations, academic HCI research and envisioning a product at a small company in sustainability. The success of having that open mindedness and experimenting to see what I like and don’t like is what fuels me to learn what my values and non-negotiables are. This has helped me become a generalist who can connect the dots and help others in multiple ways.

Q: Why are you passionate about women in technology?

A: Because the best teams that you see and products you use come from having diverse voices. Women and marginalized groups provide a new perspective we might not have even realized. I feel that many women in tech go through impostor syndrome and self doubt where you must do more than your male counterparts. I think we all want to stop that feeling. There are many male allies in technology as well, it’s not just women who are passionate about keeping women in tech.

Q: What is the most important thing you’ve learnt in tech?

A: Since the pandemic hit, I reflected more and focused on my mental health. I think overcoming impostor syndrome all stems from confidence in yourself. I’ve been told that impostor syndrome is always there and there are ways to mitigate it, but it’s important to be aware of it so that you don’t let it interfere with your authentic self. 

The most important thing I've learnt about overcoming impostor syndrome reflects back on my personal life; reaching out to your network, knowing that you’re not alone. This is so important, as well as recognizing your achievements and your strengths while also being aware of your weaknesses and gaps. Knowing that you can work on those and also lean on other people to fill those gaps is what creates strong leaders and well-rounded teams. Practicing gratitude and recognizing where you get your energy as well leads you to find opportunities, communities and people who help you grow. 

Finally, knowing when to say no to things that bog you down and placing boundaries in both your personal and work life are key to living an intentional life. As women, we always have these pressures on ourselves, whether someone tells us or whether they’re internally perceived because we hold ourselves accountable to perfection, which is easier to say that we shouldn’t do that but it’s so easy to fall into that. I think it’s important to really find a place in which you feel like you can be your authentic self, feel connected to others, and bring purpose in the world, which ends up helping the company grow.

Q: Tell us about a time when you experienced gender inequality in your own career.

A: I’ve been very very lucky so far, and whether I was just unaware of it or I was surrounded by supportive people, I never felt like I experienced a lot of sexism. That being said, there were situations where I would say something and felt it was dismissed. I had a colleague who was a senior male but he was also Asian. I worked on trying to educate best practices to a client, but it didn’t resonate with them until my counterpart repeated similar sentiments. I asked for feedback from my colleague but also recognized that sometimes I may not describe things as concisely as I could have - is this why this moment happened, or was it a bias? There’s a balance of self-reflection that we all face as women.  There are moments like that where I wonder if someone doesn’t understand me because I’m the first one who said it, or it needed to be repeated by someone else, or if it’s because I’m a woman, or because I’m younger and may be perceived as less experienced? There are all of these perceptions and doubts, but moving forward I know what I’m saying makes sense, because it’s backed by research, by data, and lived experiences and intuition as well. Despite these doubts, I’ve become more resilient to these situations and have more confidence in myself now.

Q: Have you noticed any shifts, positive or negative, in gender inclusivity in the tech industry?

A: I’m always hopeful that things are moving in a better direction. The pandemic has made us take a step back in all of the work and progress that we’ve made due to enforced gender norms. I just hear so many of my female colleagues talking about the need to take care of the house and the family, teaching children while sometimes also doing their job. I’m not saying men aren’t doing this, but I think that those gender norms are being reinforced and it’s creating a major challenge. 

With both gender equality and women in tech having these voices, social and racial justice being shared on social media, and these topics being more common, the tech spaces are becoming increasingly positive and people are more aware of the diverse challenges we face as a society. After the pandemic, people will hopefully be able to reflect and do something about these injustices. 

Q: What tips/advice would you give women in tech or those who aspire to work in tech?

A: The first would be to own your story. Don’t mould yourself into others’ ideals, compare yourself to others or dismiss your journey. If you're trying to get into tech, know that every rejection is not personal, as often these companies are not for you. The second is if you have that strong desire to get into tech or change fields, you will always get there in some way, or the journey to getting there will reveal other things about yourself and move you in a direction you align with. We’re always so afraid of failure, but we just need to take a step back and see that failure is not a bad thing, it’s actually so important to growth. I’m someone who is still learning how to be comfortable in the uncomfortable, because growth and comfort do not go hand in hand. 

Q: What changes would you like to see in order to make the tech industry more inclusive for women?

A: The changes that I'd like to see are the mentality of learning to recognize our biases and we also need to recognize our own patterns. We need to support each other through elevating our practices around mental health, child care, and taking time off for whatever reason without judgement. We need to celebrate living in a way that is sustainable and makes us happy. It’s important to find work that drives us, but also find a lifestyle that works for us. Producing strong outcomes, not outputs, can be realized by finding our optimal work styles. The pandemic helped prove that companies yield amazing results when people feel empowered to work wherever and whenever, by integrating work with their life. Whether that’s traveling the world or working remote to taking breaks during the day when your energy is low then coming back when you can produce the best results. 

Having advocates is also essential, not just mentors but also sponsors, those who will support your career and vouch for you to help you move up or remind you of your worth when doubt creeps up on you. Inclusivity isn’t just getting hired and adding a different view, but it's also feeling like you're accepted, and it has to be wholehearted acceptance. Being able to see diversity in leadership, women, marginalized groups and BIPoC communities. It’s isolating when you don’t see yourself in role models both outwardly and inwardly. 

As Carrie continues on her professional journey, we are excited to have her as a member of our team and as a mentor who brings compassion and insight to the Career Pathing program.